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27 November 2009 @ 11:16 pm
Bustline in big busted corsets?  
Hello,

it's me again with a question about plus-sized, big busted corsets. The memories and looking at hundreds of back posts didn't bring anything up, so I'm asking here. (If there's something already written about it, please link me back.)

I draped and drafted the front part of the corset for my friend and I had to set the bustline higher over the bust. It's now about 2cm higher than at the center front and side seam.
As I'm not sure about this, I wanted to know if this happens in big patterns or if this shouldn't be.
I'm afraid that with a higher bustline the push to the bust will be too big and the cleavage will look weird. (My friend doesn't want much push, just a good support for her big F/small G Cup.)
When I thought about just setting it down at its normal height and tried to give the cups a shape with the required length measurement, it doesn't fit into the width measurements without looking very creepy.


This is the design we want to achieve:
Photobucket
The padded dressform with the draped piece of fabric and drawn-in seamlines
Photobucket Photobucket
As you can see, the bustline is higher in the front part.

The draped pattern layed out and the final pattern draft (the red line is the bust line)
Photobucket Photobucket


Any advice regarding the pattern is very welcome. Thanks

Greets from Germany
Cao
 
 
Current Location: Germany
Current Mood: geekygeeky
 
 
 
athenaprimeathenaprime on November 27th, 2009 10:27 pm (UTC)
I'm no expert, but have you considered adding bust gores, a la the Silverado Corset from Laughing Moon? The Silverado gives kind of a heart-shaped neckline, with added coverage over the bosom-y part of the bustline. Gores would give your friend a more "cup" shaped place to rest her bosoms.
Caoilfhionn: corsetcaoilfhionn_83 on November 27th, 2009 11:22 pm (UTC)
Bust gores are no option for the design my friend wants. I suggested it once but she wanted "clean" seamlines from top to bottom.
But thanks for your suggestion.
katexxxxxxkatexxxxxx on November 27th, 2009 10:50 pm (UTC)
You need a longer piece of fabric to go round an F/G cup bust than you do round a, A/B cup bust, so when laid out on the table it will look like the bustline goes up. However, when wrapped pound the figure, it goes OUT rather than UP.

Mind you, when I look at the side picture on your stand, it seems that you have sloped the bustline up at the front. Try redrawing it with the bustline parallel to the table all the way round. Your pattern won't look quite so distorted then.

The gored corset sounds like a good idea. I need to try one of theses (adds to end of ever-growing list... )
Donnademi_x on November 27th, 2009 11:06 pm (UTC)
seconded, this is correct.
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 27th, 2009 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - demi_x on November 28th, 2009 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - siouxsyn on November 28th, 2009 06:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Eggie: Womeggies_red_dres on November 27th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC)
For that large of a bust I'd suggest one more pattern piece over that bust for a total of four. Also, are you going for a modern silhouette? Four will be in my opinion of the most help in that endeavor.

Anyway, my idle curiosity's out of the way; :-) it is normal to need to have something distort and be pushed off grain line between waist and bust as the difference in girth increases. As the forms push outwards, while they remain on those same levels front to back the curve has to grow, but not always evenly when compared to fabric grain. If they were to be even, your body would be pushed out of the way. So you could 'correct' your pattern to be the shape in line with the grain, but your bust would be mushed upwards out of the corset as some of the curvature would be forcing it out. Or you can be okay with the fact that over half the time, patterns as reflected in commercial patterns don't reflect natural bodies.

My skirt darts as an example, are never in the 'right' place compared to a commercial pattern. I can only presume that the larger the bust the more irregular looking the pattern will be as compared again to the grain of the fabric and the typical commercial pattern.

Please let me commend you for attempting to pad your form to look like your prospective client.
Rosemary Warnerrjw76 on November 27th, 2009 11:40 pm (UTC)
Please let me commend you for attempting to pad your form to look like your prospective client.

YES!

It's amazing how many people think that if you adjust a dress form to have the right bust measurement it will fit! It won't- you end up trying to fit for a woman fatter round the back but with smaller breasts...
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 27th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 27th, 2009 11:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - katexxxxxx on November 28th, 2009 06:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - katexxxxxx on November 28th, 2009 09:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 09:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Rosemary Warnerrjw76 on November 27th, 2009 11:37 pm (UTC)
I am a 36F and much prefer a line that goes up slightly over the bust and down at the centre front anyway. I think it flatters hourglass figures a lot more than a straight line would, so is to be encouraged even if you didn't quite mean it :)
Caoilfhionn: corsetcaoilfhionn_83 on November 27th, 2009 11:58 pm (UTC)
Thanks, this is good to read :).
So you didn't have any fitting problems with it so far?
(no subject) - katexxxxxx on November 28th, 2009 10:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
Donnademi_x on November 28th, 2009 12:43 am (UTC)
you might get a better fit doing a duct tape fitting on your friend instead of on a dummy. That way you can be sure of where her natural bust line sits.
Caoilfhionn: corsetcaoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:32 pm (UTC)
Sure it would probably be better to have a duct tape form, but there is/was no way to do so as I took her measurements while visiting her on my way to and back from my sister, who lives in Finnland. I stayed only one night each way and there was no time to wrap her up in duct tape.

Besides I won't be able to make duct tape dummies from all my future 'clients' (which I hope to have one day) or all people I'll make a corset for... so I need to learn to do it without this help. But thanks for suggesting.
andiandi_sunrider on November 28th, 2009 03:06 am (UTC)
Can the mods possibly add this to memories? There are some really awesome informative discussion response threads here....
unclrashidunclrashid on November 28th, 2009 07:38 am (UTC)
One thing I see, semi-related to your question:

It looks like you have padded out the form to match her shape in a modern bra. Her shape will probably change in the corset. You can usually get a corset to have that shape, but the larger the bust the more difficult it can become. A large bustline like that will want to squish back somewhat under the arms. Under a period dress this can help accentuate the hourglass shape and make the waistline look even smaller. If the corset is going to be worn like a sleeveless bodice, some people can find that unattractive. Partially depends of fit, partially on the body and partially on personal taste.

Be aware that the bustline will tend at least somewhat in this direction unless you arrange the seamlines and bones to prevent it. Bust Gores will tend to prevent this somewhat, and princess line seams also can help. You may find you need heavier/more boning on the sides in addition, unless you want to go for a more Victorian (compressed to the sides) bustline.
Caoilfhionn: corsetcaoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:41 pm (UTC)
I'm aware that her breasts will tend to squish pitwards and that I need to suppport the sides of the bust quite a lot and give enough room in the front to prevent this. This issue was already spoken of in my first post about my friend's corset some time ago. This is why we also have a quite high neckline with some upward forming at the sides of the bust right in front of the armpits.

I tried to pad the dressform the way that all bustmass is 'gathered' in the frontarea and won't wander to the sides, so I would give enough width to the cups right away.
But I have no idea how her bustmass will behave when laced in the corset. This is something I will only see in the mock-up fitting, I guess.

But thank you very much for mentioning it.
ravenrigan: Belle Epoque Frockravenrigan on November 28th, 2009 09:29 am (UTC)
I'm about the same size and shape as your friend and I deliberately bought a medium sized dress form, so I could pad it to me shape.

The easy way to do the bust is to ask your friend for an old full cup bra that fits her well and just stuff it with batting or soft fabric scraps. I've used fleece before now!

It's a big help when fitting the garment, as it behaves much more like an actual body than a dress form.

Though bubble wrap is also a splendid idea which I may try!

.
Donnademi_x on November 28th, 2009 02:11 pm (UTC)
both the above posts are excellent advice
(no subject) - caoilfhionn_83 on November 28th, 2009 08:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ravenrigan on November 29th, 2009 09:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
Zoggibelladonna_eyes on November 29th, 2009 08:39 pm (UTC)
I am assuming that by "bustline" you mean the line of the fullest part of the bust, not the level of the top edge of the corset? If so, then the bustline should always be horizontal, no matter what alterations you make to the design of the corset or the cut of the decolletage. However, if you do want to raise the bust (to create a kind of shelf-boobs-under-the-chin look) then you must bear in mind that the shape of the bust will change. It isn't as simple as just raising the bustline as if you were making an alteration to the pattern for someone with a longer torso - you have to think about how the flesh will displace, because the breasts are still anchored at the same point on her chest. In my opinion, it shouldn't be necessary to raise the bustline to make the corset more supportive anyway, as long as it fits well under the bust and you have enough seams/bones. The point of the bust should be around halfway between the elbow and the shoulder, just like in a bra.
Caoilfhionn: corsetcaoilfhionn_83 on November 29th, 2009 11:13 pm (UTC)
Yes I regard to the bustline as the line of the fullest part of the bust.
I know that it should be horizontal and I didn't raise it on purpose to get a raise of the bust for a "shelf-boobs-under-the-chin look" as you call it. In fact this is the last thing my friend and I want. We want to get a nice coverage and suppport of her bust, not much push.
My problem is to have the length I measured at her bust from underbust to bustpoint (nipple) around the whole curve to fit into the straight distance between the underbust- and bustline taken at the sideseam.
If I know how I could properly fit the lengths and widths together, I'd leave the bustline horizontal at it's actual level. Trying to make the curve steeper/curvier (to get more length) will probably end up in being so steep at the underbustline that I will get wrinkles...
Unfortunately the bustpoint of my friend in a bra is more like a good two inches above the elbow than around halfway between shoulder and elbow. We had to tighten her bra straps quite a bit to be able to take a somewhat horizontal bustcircumference and to find/see the underbustpoint at the very beginning. So I need to lift her bust to a horizontal level (which will give enough push anyway).

Thank you very much.