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19 September 2005 @ 03:22 pm
New info about my broken spoon busk from Grannd  
Those of you who have been follwing the thread here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/corsetmakers/452025.html?mode=reply and here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/corsetmakers/452193.html?mode=reply already know about the spoon busk I bought from Grannd Garb. I wrote to them to inform them that they provided misinformation on their web site, and asked them to accept a return of the broken busk as well as another spoon busk I bought from them. You can find that letter in the comments near the bottom of the thread in my original post. This was their response:



On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:20 AM, Information wrote:

"Hello,

Our busks are from Wissner in Germany. Thank you for letting us know that the person you spoke with was not informed of the change. Obviously the website has already been changed and updated to reflect the busk's current materials. I apologize the the person on the phone had an old product guide's information memorized.

Tight lacing needs busks that are flexible. Spoon busks, due to the spoon shape, can not flex in the bowl so by nature of the shape, the busk is not suited to use in tight lacing corsets. We list this on the busk information page as a courtesy . The product we carry by Wissner is not inferior, it works wonderfully as a spoon busk. Wissner is the only manufacturer in the world, that we know of, who still makes these types of busks. Conical busks, which are wider on one end in a manner similar to spoon busks could be used as they have no bowl at the bottom, they are simply wider.

Best regards,

Grannd Companies"

I wrote them back today. Here is my letter:

"Grannd,

I did not speak to anyone on the phone. I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you saying your busks are made of stainless steel? I contacted Wissner and they said their busks will not break under the strain of tight lacing. I have a sample, which I bent almost to a right angle, and there was no problem at all. They are very flexible, and ridged. When did you buy your busks from Wissner? If Wissner says their busks are fine for tight lacing, but your say your busks are from Wissner. Their sample did not break, but the busk you sold me did break, what am I to believe? The busk you sold me was also very flexible. I still have one, and I'm flexing it right now. Tight lacing corsets with really flexible busks are not good tight lacing corsets because they don't hold the tummy in. What is the point of a spoon busk if not to hold in the tummy? You did not address the issue of my return or my refund. I am a member of many corseting communities. I hope you treat me fairly so I can tell everyone you are an honest vendor.

Kind regards,

Alexis Black
Electra Designs"

I think it's imortant that everyone here be aware of the misinformation surrounding spoon busks. I want to get to the bottom of this. I have ordered several spoon busks from Wissner and I want to be certain they will not break like the one I bought from Grannd did. I keep getting conflicting info from grannd, and they won't even acknowlege my request for a refund. Spoon busks are a lot of money and I am a good customer. I already used one of their spoon busks in a corset, which happened to have been lost in the mail, never to be seen again, so I don't know what might have happened with it had my client actually worn the corset. The busks cost about $45 each plus $8 shipping. That's nearly $150 lost on spoon busks from grannd, not to mention that I have to remake Klara's corset from scratch as a result of the broken busk. I have another order for a corset with a spoon busk in it, which i will have to make soon. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this so i can know whether or not to use a spoon busk in it. I also want to know if I should cancel my Wissner order, since Grannd claims their busks come from Wissner.


 
 
Current Mood: frustratedfrustrated
 
 
 
hissykitties on September 19th, 2005 11:03 pm (UTC)
It is heartbreaking to see that you are going through this. I tell you though, I will never patronize Grannd after the fiasco with last order that I placed with them. They really have garnered a lot of bad press on these communities. I say get your money back from Grannd and deal with Wissner or someone else that sells them.
Amanda cissa on September 19th, 2005 11:51 pm (UTC)
I agree. I ordered from them once, and they messed it up, and didn't really resolve it satisfactorily.
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 04:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - belleofthebay on September 20th, 2005 07:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 03:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 05:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 06:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 06:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 20th, 2005 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 07:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 20th, 2005 08:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 20th, 2005 09:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 10:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 21st, 2005 04:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 05:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - belleofthebay on September 20th, 2005 07:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 20th, 2005 08:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - mrpet on September 20th, 2005 09:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - cheshire_bitten on September 21st, 2005 05:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 05:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - cheshire_bitten on September 21st, 2005 05:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 06:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - cheshire_bitten on September 22nd, 2005 12:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Shiny steel = stainless steel? - electradesigns on September 22nd, 2005 06:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - justtobeme2 on September 20th, 2005 03:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 04:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 07:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 07:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 08:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 07:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 07:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Not until you get to know me sirs_pet on September 19th, 2005 11:29 pm (UTC)
Mmm I've heard enough recently that I can say I won't be using Grannd either. After all, there's nothing that they sell that I need that I can't get elsewhere, from a company with a good reputation.

I do hope you get this resolved.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 03:25 am (UTC)
Thank you for your support. It's not like grannd is the only company selling corset making supplies, so i don't know how they can just treat people this way. I have spendt hundres of dollars with them, and could potentially spend hundreds more. It's not only unfair, it's just bad business. I hear corsetmaking.com is really good. I have not had any problems with them.
(no subject) - sirs_pet on September 20th, 2005 03:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 04:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - belleofthebay on September 20th, 2005 07:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bloodykissez on September 21st, 2005 01:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 05:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
Suzy suzy_hendrix on September 19th, 2005 11:34 pm (UTC)
I think it's even worse that you're a corset maker (and a well respected one I might add) and that their misinformation leading to an inferior finished product threatens to reflect poorly on you as a corsetier. If I were you I would stress the potential damage to you and your business as a result of their poor communication.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 03:29 am (UTC)
I will do that. I can't afford to swallow one more incedent like this. I am just one women, not a big company. For every corset I have to replace, I could be making a living. I was luck that this client was a sweetie about it. She could have made a real stink about it. It could have cut her or ruined her wedding day (had it been a wedding corset), or worse, she might have gone around telling people my corsets break. I want to make this right with Klara and Grannd should make it right with me. I'm not asking them to pay me for the corset, just let me return two busks (one broken and the other not yet used). I don't think that's too much to ask. I'm glad all of you seem to see it that way too. :)
justtobeme2 justtobeme2 on September 20th, 2005 12:34 am (UTC)
Well I won't buy from them either. You know their statement about being able to flex in the bowl? Well if the busk broke in the bowl that might be one thing but didnt you say it broke further up? Then that would make no sense.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 03:55 am (UTC)
Pictures of the Corset with Broken Busk
It broke at the waist the first time she wore it! The bus IS flexible. I have the other one right here and I can bend it all over the place. I can make a dramatic U shape out of it, frontways and backways. The bowl section doesn't even need to bend. It's hardly even a bowl shape to begin with. It's only very slightly curved. It's not shaled like a bowl at all. It is just a little curved.
Here is the broken buk in the corset. I left it in because I will try to sell it as is on ebay or something.

Here is the other, identical busk from grannd. This is the side view at eye level. You can see that it really isn't bowl shaped at all. The steel has a slight curve, but it's not like a spoon. It doesn't form even a shallow cup at the bottom.

Here is the same busk, whic is identical to the one that broke. I bent it forwards and backwards with one hand. It bends further with two but I had to hold the camera and I didn't want it to spring up and hit me in the face.
The first one is with the clasps facing the counter.

This one shows it with the clasps facing the inside of the U shape.
<img src="http://images.andale.com/f2/109/100/17437434/1128677308329_grannd_busk_side_view.jpg /> Now if i can do that with one hand (I have carpal tunnel syndrom and cronic fatigue, and I weigh less than 120 lbs, mind you), then how the heck can Grannd say that the spoon busk is not flexible and that's why it broke? I'm not stupid. I understand physics and I have good reasoning skills. Maybe someone here can tell me how a busk like this broke because it's "not flexible". It's cheap steel! My client has a 23" waist when laced up. It's not like she was hodling back an ocean with the dam of her corset or anything.
(Deleted comment)
Re: Pictures of the Corset with Broken Busk - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 05:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
Venomiss venomiss on September 20th, 2005 12:47 am (UTC)
This pretty much lines up with the poor service I got from them a couple years ago... precisely why I no longer order from them.
Good luck getting some kind of satisfaction, and thanks for keeping the rest of us posted.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 04:03 am (UTC)
Thank you for your support. Live and learn, i suppose. :) I will definitely keep everyone informed.
Aurora Celeste auroraceleste on September 20th, 2005 01:03 am (UTC)
Ugh, I'm watching with interest but I don't give it much hope. Have you figured out another place to get the spoon busks from? Will Wissner ship directly to you? What is min order? I might go in on that one with you.

Just for future reference, though, ridged - made with bumpy lines (ruffles have ridges). Rigid - stiff and inflexible.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 04:02 am (UTC)
Thabk you for correcting me on that. :) I love it when people do. Mon son hates it. Yes. I meant it is still, not ruffley.
I am participating in a group order with Wissner because i can't afford their minimums right now. They can ship directly to me, and i have ordered other products from them. When I have enough money, I will just order direct from them. The question is, if grannd says they bought this busk from Wissner, then what happens if the Wissner busks break too? Wissner says they don't break and that the one I had was galvanized steel, which they no longer use. They use stainless steel, which makes all the dir=fference, but now grannd says the busk IS stainless steel and they gave me the wrong info when they told me it was galvanized steel. hmm.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 03:57 am (UTC)
Re: Pictures of the Corset with Broken Busk
Forgot the last picture:

This one shows the busk with the clasps facing into the curve.
the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 06:06 am (UTC)
Re: Pictures of the Corset with Broken Busk
Is that busk a shiny bright silver? Or is it a shiny dark grey? It`s hard to tell with the photos.
Re: Pictures of the Corset with Broken Busk - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 05:48 am (UTC)
I will be sure to let everyone know the "truth" if I ever get to the bottom of it.:) I would just be happy to get my money back too. They really are expensive. I have to order them one at a time because I couldn't afford to order several, so when you add $6-$8 shipping on each busk, it just gets crazy expensive. It takes much more work to sew the spoon busk in too, so there was a lot invested in this corset. I am learning a lot though so that makes it worth the pain. :D
rosegoddesss on September 20th, 2005 06:19 am (UTC)
I just wanted to say that I'm grateful for your integrity.
Not only would I not have to worry that I was screwed if there was ever a problem like this with a corset that you made for me (somewhere over the rainbow....) ...but it also helps to have a guideline of what to do in my own business if I ever have a customer with a similar issue.
Exemplary.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:31 am (UTC)
:) Thank you! I hope never to have this problem again. i can't afford to remake corsets all the time. They take so much work and materials to make! argh. I pride myself on using the highest quality materials and tecniques, so it is my responsibility to make a new corset even though it's not techincally my fault. i want to do everything possible to avoid having something like this happen again. Even if I never get my money back, and from what i have heard about botched orders others have had from grannd i doubt i ever will), I hope to find out if this busk was indeed bough from Wissner, what kind of steel it really is, and whether or not i will be able to obtain any real spoon busks from any source in the future.
(no subject) - rosegoddesss on September 20th, 2005 06:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 06:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rosegoddesss on September 20th, 2005 07:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
volutelady volutelady on September 20th, 2005 09:48 am (UTC)
I've been following your threads about that damn busk, and would like to say I'm really sorry for you. All those stories of corsets that have to be redone from zero because of a mail loss (!!!) or, for this time, a spoon broken, really make me feel sad. I think in the same case I'd cry... It fortunately never happened to me, but when I see those stories (it happened to Joyce from lescarpolette too, I was very sad and angry for her), it makes me feel I should be more careful and I think for my next invoices I'll pay more for the postage (recommanded package to be delivered only with signature, etc.) not to live that nightmare.

Well, just to add my 2 cents about Grannd, I had problems with them too (one more!). I wanted to place an order with a friend of mine in January or February, it was quite urgent. But since their shopping cart (at least at that time) only accepted U.S. address with state and zip code, I couldn't place my order online since I'm living in France. I mailed them, they answered me... a few days later, that they had problems, that they would maybe try to modify their cart... I proposed them to simply list my order in a normal mail and pay directly by Paypal: they never answered me! It seems they absolutely don't care about people placing orders or not... How do they expect to live? I was very angry, and felt bad in front of my friend. The whole things took days and days. I had to place a rush order for some things at corsetmaking.com, and to manage another way for other items. I'd like to add I mainly buy from corsetmaking.com now, a bit from Farthingales, and am very happy of both - except that the shipping delay for Farthingales is incomprehensible: 1 to 3 monthes from Canada to France (OK, it's the basic shipping choice, but it's already a HUGE sum), when it often takes 1 week from USA to France (and even with a cheaper shipping)?!... But both have a very friendly contact and good quality products that never failed me.
Well, I think everybody agree...
And what do we do with Grannd ? Burn, burn the Grannd !
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 07:53 pm (UTC)
Oh that's terrible! I hope we don't have grannd listed in the memories as a source for corset making supplies. If we do, perhaos we should have the mod type up a warning. It wouldn't be right to lead newbies down that path of dissapointment. I'm so disgusted with grannd. i told them I was amamber of corset making communities but do they care? I still haven;t heard back from them. I suppose I no longer exist to them. A**holes.
刹那~Setsuna~ gothxxangel on September 20th, 2005 01:38 pm (UTC)
I'm so sorry to hear about your problems with the spoon busk. The ultimate WTF came when I read the email sent to you claiming that "Spoon busks, due to the spoon shape, can not flex in the bowl so by nature of the shape, the busk is not suited to use in tight lacing corsets". What on earth were original corsets made with then??

Goodness.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:06 pm (UTC)
duh, right? I mean it's not like it broke in the "bowl", which by the way as you can tell from the pictures is far from bowl shaped. I think if spoon busks in general were all useless for tight lacing they never would have been used in the first place. I have never seen a vintage corset with a broken spoon busk. Now i KNOW ladies used to tightlace every day. It was common practice and that's exactly what corsets were made for. They didn't have fake "corsets" with fake spoon busks just for show. Like it's cool to have a spoon in your shirt.
the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 02:19 pm (UTC)
The Saga goes on......
Hi everyone,

I just spoke with the person who handles International Sales for Wissner (Thomas Müller). This is what he said:
The busk which Alexis was sold was OLD STOCK!! Everything which Wissner has produced in the past 3 years has been only stainless steel.

My advice? Don`t buy from Grannd Garb!!!
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:33 pm (UTC)
Re: The Saga goes on......
Thank you so much for clearing that up! What a hassle that must have been for you. You are such a sweet heart.

So, there you have it folks! Grannd made a mistake. Now lets see if they do the right thing and correct it.
Lescarpolette lescarpolette on September 20th, 2005 02:38 pm (UTC)
Hello dear, I have ordered only once a spoon busk at venacava and it was looking dark grey and like if it will rust if let in the water for some time. I remember I was not able to do wath you do with the one on the pic, the spoon busk I bought was not able to curve like that, I think if I have made that it has break and hurt me. It is actually for a tighlacer you know (I sent you pics months before) and she ask me to make two and Im worried. I think to buy from venacava of piccoli-shop.de. I use it because she have a belly, and even with the most tighter corset she will have a belly. Except for her of for historical purposes, I will not use spoon busks because they are expensive and because I heard in farthingales advice they are not good for tighlacing,this for me means not good for more than 10 cm of waist reduction, otherwise the busk will be submitted to too much pressure. For an extra support, I use wide busks sold everywhere like on corsetmaking, piccoli, venacava...they are wide and more straight, and less expensive than spoon busks.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:09 pm (UTC)
Have you had any problem with the spoon busks you bought from vena cava? I have several of them. They told me they would be fine for tight lacing, but to reinforce them with a row of flat boning to be sure.
abitofanenigma abitofanenigma on September 20th, 2005 06:21 pm (UTC)
Their customer service sounds absolutely disgusting. They shouldn't sell things that are so dangerous. If they continue to misinform, I'd get in touch with The Consumer Advice Bureau (the U.S must have one, surely?).

As for spoonbusks being used for tightlacing, what I learned from the Laughing Moon video was that this busk was initially designed to re-inforce the strength of the front of the corset, as apparently they would often snap. So they should be good as long as you refrain from leaning over.

I personally always thought that spoon busks were simply to make the corset more comfortable around the stomach. I'm a little soft around the middle and what I find is that even if the front of the corset is flat-fronted, the busk will curve slightly and my belly is pushed down, The spoon busk would probably alleviate a little of the pressure at the waist and 'cup' the bottom of my belly, as opposed to pushing it down and out. I can see how they would be bad for tight-lacing, from a logical perspective. I think conventional straight busks have no enforced shape and the pressure on them would be roughly equal, whereas the spoon-busk is an enforced shape so there might be added pressure on it when you're trying to pull it tight. Also weren't spoon busks introduced in the mid 19th century? 1850's/60s? I don't think tight-lacing was such an issue then as they wore huge skirts that made the waist smaller by comparison. I think tight-lacing was probably only for the strict followers of fashion. Waists in that era were generally a lot smaller than they are today, so they had to reduce a lot less than we might. I recently invested in my first spoon busk, and so am a little worried! I think it may also be something to do with the shape; the top is thinner and more flexible whereas the greater width at the bottom is somewhat sturdier. Perhaps this disparity is a contributing factor to the snapping.

I could be completely wrong though! I'm just trying to think why spoon-busks are not suitable for tightlacing. But the bottom line is that grand garb appear to have sold you an item of inferior quality, and must be held accountable.

On another note, how are the vena cava spoon busks? I'm quite worried now!
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:42 pm (UTC)
Old Busks and Old Information.
It might be a good idea to note that the corset making video is probably a few years old, as are most books and information about spoon busks. Even if the book isn't old, the information written in the book might still be based on the old busks. People say they are fragile because they were used to getting galvanized steel busks. Now Wissner makes stainless steel busks and most every busk vendor buys from Wissner. So all that talk of spoon busks being unsuitable for tight lacing is old info based on old busks. That is UNLESS the vendor is selling OLD STOCK as in the case of Grannd.
Wissner has sugested that we reinfoce the back of the busk with a layer of flat boning but that they are fine for "extreme models" if you do that. Vena Cava has said the same.
Once worde gets around, maybe a distinction will be made between old spoon busks and the new kind. It sounds like the info in the video and olf corset making books was based on the galvanized steel spoon busks. I would evnture to guess that most companies will still add the disclaimer when selling spoon busks of any type just in case, so they won't be held liable.
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 07:18 pm (UTC)
Info from Vena Cava about their spoon busks.
I wrote to Vena Cava to ask them about their spoon busks because I bought several from them which I have yet to use. They look different from t hose bought from grannd and I wanted to find out what they were made of before using one, and potentially risking ruining yet another corset.

This is what I wrote:

"Vena Cava,

What kind of steel are your spoon busks made out of? Are they
suitable for tight lacing?

Thank you.

Warmly,
Alexis"
_______
This was thier reply:
"
On Sep 19, 2005, at 7:07 AM, Vena Cava Design wrote:

Hi Alexis,

Thanks for your mail.

As far as I know they are made from Inox steel.

They are strong and I have used them for a tight lacing corset
myself but
cannot make any definitive statements about their appropriateness.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further
questions.

Best Wishes

Elizabeth"
____________
To which i responded:

"----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexis Black" <electradesigns@adelphia.net>
To: "Vena Cava Design" <info@venacavadesign.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re:


Elizabeth,

Thank you for your response. The reason I am asking is that I bought
some spoon busks from Grannd Garb and one of them broke the first
time my client wore her corset. Both halves just snapped right in two
at the waist. Their web site says the busks are made of stainless
steel, which, as Wissner told me, is very strong and flexible and
will not break under the strain of tight lacing. When I asked Grannd
why the busk broke, they told me it was actually made of galvanized
steel, which weakens during the manufacturing process. The steel
becomes brittle and snaps due to inflexibility. What is Inox steel?
I have three of your 14" spoon busks. I use all busks in custom
corsets built for tight lacing. As I am a one woman business, it is a
huge loss for me to have to remake a corset when the busk breaks. I
have to remake the corset that contained the Grannd busk. I can't
afford to risk installing your busk without knowing in advance that
it is strong enough to withstand tight lacing. Is there any way you
can obtain this information for me, please? I would like to continue
to purchase from Vena Cava. It takes over 40 hours to sew a custom
corset, so it is important that I have reassurance about the quality
of the busk before I invest that much time, effort and materials.
Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Warmly,
Alexis"
__________
Elizabeth wrote back today. Thi is what she said:
"Hi Alexis,

Our spoon busks are made of stainless steel, Inox is just a particular grade
of steel, they are not galvanised. They are preshaped and not designed to
really achieve the waist curves for serious reduction.

We have had busks fail ourselves, the broad busks are made of the same
material and they can break if misused so I can appreciate the nuisance of
having to repair a corset that has had so much work put into it.

This is a quote from Linda Spark's book on corset making that I thought was
useful
"Spoon busks....These are the least flexible busk and in fact tend to be a
bit brittle, which makes them a poor choice for tight lacing. If you do use
one for a tight lacing project, be sure to add support behind them by
sliding a bone in behind each side."

I hope that this has helped clarify things for you, please mail again if you
have any further questions.

Best Wishes

Elizabeth"

________
Elizabeth is certainly more friendly and has much better customer service than grannd to be certain. From this I can only summize that grannd does not sell stainless steel spoon busks. The stainless steel ones are a dark gray. Grannd sent me light gray, very dull busks. They are the same color as my galvanized steel boning. If they did indeed buy their busks from Wissner, they must have bough old stock from before Wissner switched to stainless steel.

Any thoughts?




the_bats_meow on September 20th, 2005 08:16 pm (UTC)
Re: Info from Vena Cava about their spoon busks.
"Inox" is a german abbreviation for stainless steel!
Re: Info from Vena Cava about their spoon busks. - electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
electradesigns electradesigns on September 20th, 2005 08:25 pm (UTC)
New Letter To Grannd
Having discovered that grannd sold me old stock that they bought from wissner years ago before they changed to stainless steel, I wrote Gannd asking for an exchange.

Here is what i wrote:

"Grannd,

I have been in contact with Wissner. Thomas Muller told me you sold me old stock. They haven't sold galvanized steel busks for nearly three years. You did tell me it was galvanized steel. I compared your busks to my stainless steel busks from Vena Cava and they are certainly not the same. Wissner now sells stainless steel spoon busks which are fine for tight lacing. If you can't give me my money back, please replace the broken spoon busk with a stainless steel spoon busk, and accept and exchange for the other spoon busk. I will gladly accept a stainless steel spoon busk in exchange for the galvanized steel ones. You can sell the galvanized steel to someone who doesn't need the busk to be strong. I did buy a third spoon busk from you, which was installed in a custom corset that got lost in the mail and was never worn by my client. I have ordered other items from you as well and would like to remain your customer. Please do the right thing and send me two spoon busk from Wissner's new stock. I will gladly send you my busks for the exchange.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Warmly,
Alexis"
The Enlightened Optimist britgeekgrrl on September 20th, 2005 10:53 pm (UTC)
Forgive me if this already got mentioned but what if it was a case of bad steel/materials equalling a bad batch of busks to Weissner (and hence on to Grannd)?

Just a thought. Regardless of my late-arriving hypothesis, I'm sorry to hear that you're going through all this grief. Ideally, Grannd's response would have been "You're not happy with the goods? So sorry! Here's a refund!" not caveat-bloody-emptor.
The Enlightened Optimist britgeekgrrl on September 20th, 2005 10:54 pm (UTC)
AHA!

I got to the end of the thread (wow!)

Disregard my last. Sorry 'bout that. I should look before I leap.
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 12:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - electradesigns on September 21st, 2005 12:14 am (UTC) (Expand)